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Planches: anciennes vs nouvelles; Comparatif
Topic Started: Sep 6 2007, 03:12 PM (752 Views)
Clarencephil
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Article très intéressant sur les anciennes planches vs les nouvelles planches dans BoardSeekerMag (lien)

Allez le lire pour les photos et images, mais je reproduis le texte ici

Quote:
 
 
15 years of evolution

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There is no doubt that boards evolve from year to year, but do they really improve?

To find out, we decided to conduct a test between a 2007 model and its 15 year old equivalent. We chose the 2007 Mistral Screamer 104 and pitted it against its 15 year old, 1992 equivalent, the Mistral Screamer 103.

The Screamer family has been one of the most successful board ranges of all time (hence the name sticking around for so long)! The boards are designed for ‘Freeriders’, (basically people whose main aim is to blast and gybe) and are suitable for early improvers, right up to advanced windsurfers.


The Stats

  New Screamer  Old Screamer
Year of Manufacture:  2007  1992 
Volume:  104  103 
Length:  259cm  277cm 
Width:  66cm  56cm 
Weight:  8.8kg  8.8kg 
Price (new):  £849  £599


So what has improved?

Shape
The most noticeable difference is seen in the plan shape of the boards. The newer Screamer is much more compact, being 18cm shorter and 10cm wider. The older board has a much more drawn-out profile and considerably narrower tail. From the side, the newer board has much more volume in the tail and standing area and thins out more noticeably in front of the mast track.

Modern thinking keeps the volume of the board around the standing area (ie under the riders feet). This Aides with board control (its easier to control the ‘bulk’ of the board when it is under your feet rather than 2m in front of you) but also the effectiveness of the volume. Putting the volume in the same area as the sailors weight makes more effective use of the volume and allows modern boards to feel bigger, despite having lower volumes.
   

Footstraps
The new footstraps are sooo much better than the old ones. Firstly, the neoprene covering on the older straps fits only over the top of the strap. This means that in bare feet, the sides of your feet are pushing against webbing and Velcro and not against the neoprene padding – not very comfy!! The modern straps have the neoprene covering the whole strap, including the footstrap screw area making them a lot more comfortable in bare feet!

The second important difference is that the new straps are rigid and as such keep their shape, even when your foot isn’t in them. The old ones are floppy and sit limply on the deck of your board when wet, making it quite difficult at times to get your foot inside!

In addition to the footstraps themselves, the other marked improvement is the options of where to put them. It used to be that you had forward…..and back. Now, you also have inboard and outboard, which Aides a lot when tuning the board for what you want it to do.
   

Seamless Rails
The new board has seamless rails.

This is fairly commonplace nowajours, but 15 years ago, nearly every board had seams running along the side (where the top and bottom laminates meet). These seams are prone to damage, look unsightly, can be sharp in bare legs and do the hydro-dynamics of the board no favours!
   

Deckpads
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The old deckpads offer very little padding, virtually no shock absorbency (the only thing they did absorb was water) and offer very little non-slip properties.


In fact, they were very poor indeed. In comparison, the new deck pads offer dual density shock absorbency, and have a really good texture to them that provides plenty of grip without sacrificing comfort. Visually they also look a lot prettier, now incorporating colours and logos etc whereas the originals are just black bits of foam!! Well done, a big step forward!!   

Nose Shape
What were they thinking for all those years?!! Why make the nose of the board razor sharp? What purpose did it serve?!!

The old screamer got around the dangers of a pointed nose by incorporating a rubber nose pad. Nowajours, the solution is a lot more straightforward – round it off!! No more damaged sails, no more impaled windsurfers and a lot less nose repairs required!    

Early Planing
So onto the water! Right away, the boards feel dramatically different to get going on.

The old board feels like a precarious balancing act, with your feet too far back and your rig too far forward. The newer board feels stable, floaty and comfortable. This also translates directly into early planning. As the wind gusts, the older board feels stuck to the water, the sail powers up, but the board is reluctant to do anything. To get going in marginal winds is very difficult indeed.

The new Screamer is much easier altogether. In the straps, you feel like you are at least standing in the correct part of the board, the volume is under your feet so there is plenty of float and the width of the tail Aides to generate lift and get the board planning as quickly as possible.

The real difference could probably be described like this: On the old board you feel like you are either on the plane or not – there is nothing in between and a massive effort is required to go from non-planing to planing. On the new board, you feel like you are just gradually build speed until you reach a point where you look around and you are planing comfortably!

There is no doubt that the new design is way superior in terms of early plaining (and staying on the plane through lulls etc). In fact, it is one of the most apparent differences between the two boards.
   

Ease of Sailing
As with early planning, the new Screamer is quite simply the easier of the two boards to live with – whether it be blasting or gybing.

In a straight line, it is generally far more comfortable. The straps are positioned more appropriately, giving the board a very balanced feel. The deck is more domed resulting in a much more relaxed foothold on the board and the wider tail Aides to prevent those ankle breaking reaches where you feel the fin is going to lever you out of the water. In general, very little rider input is required – the board just does it for you!

In the gybes, the difference is again very similar to the early planning synopsis. The older board is either on the plane or off the plane (and it very easily drops off the plane), The new board however, is much more forgiving allowing the speed to slow down a lot more before the board eventually drops off the plane. An inexperienced gyber will definitely claim a lot more gybes on the new board – there really is a big difference between the two.
   

Sail Carrying Capacity
Surprisingly, for 2 boards with virtually the same volume, the sails that they worked best with varied tremendously. The new Screamer felt most at home with sails of around 7.0m-7.5m on it. The smallest sail that we felt comfortable using was around 5.9m and the biggest around 8.5m.

The old board was quite different. It felt most comfortable with a sail of around 5.5m and was happy down to about 4.5m. At the top end however, anything over 6.5 didn’t really feel good at all.

The new Screamer was therefore most comfortable with a sail nearly 2m bigger than its equal volumed older sister. This again illustrates what the width and volume distribution have done for modern boards.

Fin
We tested both boards with their standard fins and also with matching fins. The standard fin is one of the worst things about the old board. It really is rubbish!! Putting a newer, higher aspect fin into the board really Aideed with its early planning and particularly its upwind performance.

Fin design has definitely improved leaps and bounds over the past 15 years, and it really does make a big difference to the performance of your board!!
   

Fin Fastening System
Ok, ok, this hasn’t got better. In fact it has stayed exactly the same…and its brilliant! Its hard to believe that Mistral introduced this threaded camlock fastening so long ago and no one else has copied it. It’s great as you don’t need a screw driver to change fins, there is no risk of the screw driver slipping and puncturing your board and the cam inside the lever tightens the fin with ease. Maybe we are missing something, but why hasn’t this been copied?!!!   


 

Mast Track Position
Did people really use their mast tracks near the front of these old tracks? We know that sails have improved somewhat and as the centre of effort of sails has moved forward, the mast tracks have been able to come back, but really, was it necessary to have a track this far forward?!!!

With modern rigs, we used only the very back position of the track (on the old board)
   

Price
In 1992, this board cost £599 new. With inflation over the past 15 years, the price now would be just under £900. However the retail price of our 2007 model is just £849, representing a better value product than its predecessor. Who said windsurfing was getting more expensive?!

What hasn't improved?

Top Speed
This came as a bit of a surprise to us! At top speed, powered up, the old screamer was marginally quicker on a beam reach and noticeably quicker on a broad reach! If we had to choose a board to do a speed run on, then it would definitely be the old board. Upwind, the newer board manages to save face a little with the wider tail and bigger fin Aideing it to point higher and maintain speed, but on all other points of sail the old board gets it!

It is evident that the old board is more technical and responsive to sail. It prefers a really locked down stance, driving hard off the back leg and working to keep the nose high. The new board feels like it lacks responsiveness – it requires less rider input (which in a way is good) but in the hands of a skilled sailor, there is little they can do to reap extra speed out of the board.

Gybing for the experienced sailor
Gybing is a similar affair. If you know how to gybe, are powered up and want to crank the fastest turn you can, the old screamer wins hands down. Whilst the new Screamer is much easier to gybe, the old screamer is much more fun to gybe! The narrow tail and thin rails that make it so much harder to learn to gybe on, really come to light once you know what you are doing. You can enter a gybe at full speed, bank into the turn with full confidence and exit without losing speed at all. Try doing this on the new board and your arc will be twice as wide, the board will feel big and cumbersome underfoot and the sheer width combined with chubby rails will kill that lightening speed to something much more mundane by the time you exit the turn.  

Gybing is suprisingly good fun on the older board. 

The Fun Factor


Adrian and Alan Jackson, testing them out for close combat.
    Combine the conclusions above and what you end up with is a new board that makes windsurfing easier. It will hel p you crack that carve gybe faster and have you blasting in the straps comfortably in no time at all. If this is what makes windsurfing fun for you, then look no further. The new Screamer is the board for you………Now get back into your Volvo and go home!

If on the other hand, you aspire to more than this. You want windsurfing to be an adrenaline rush, you want it to excite you and you want a challenge, then you are going to find the new board dull as dishwater. Try pushing it harder and it will moan, groan and continue to plod along at its mediocre pace. Try to crank it tighter and it will cough, splutter and then reward you with the turning arc of a super tanker.


If you want real fun, you want the old board! In a straight line, you may only be going slightly faster, but you feel like you are at lightspeed (and about to die). In the turns, you feel like every ounce of input is rewarded with faster and tighter turns. This is a board that makes carve gybing look cool again!! This is a board that puts a smile on your face!

Weight


Don't be fooled, this board is lighter than it looks!    Technology moves at an alarming rate. Products get lighter, stiffer and often cheaper as techniques and technologies evolve. It is therefore a bit surprising that after 15 years of development, there is virtually no difference in weight between these 2 boards. Perhaps this is not a general rule, but it certainly applies in the case of these 2 screamers. In 1992, you had 3 construction options: CGI, CHS and XR. CGI (the construction of our test board) was the heaviest most durable option, which makes it a bit disappointing that it matches the weight of our new screamer. Both boards weigh 8.8kg, dry with footstraps.

Perhaps strength has increased, but our Mistral Screamer has lasted 15 years without terminal injury, so do we really need more strength in freeride boards?

Secretly however, there may be another reason for the lack of weight saving. Without wanting to open a can of worms (and it could explain a few other differences between these boards), lets just say that the new Screamer looks like it has been eating well for the past 15 years!

Conclusion


So in conclusion, has the evolution of the past 15 years benefited us as windsurfers? Well, the Screamer is designed as a freeride board; for easy gybing and trouble-free blasting and to that extent the new board is a massive improvement on the old one.

There isn’t an intermediate on the water who will find the old board better for learning the basics of blasting and mastering those first carve gybes on. Not only has the board shape improved but so too has the price. Relative to 15 years ago, the new Mistral Screamer has actually got cheaper and overall represents a much higher quality package with better fin, footstraps and pads.

However all this improvement has come with several drawbacks. Firstly it appears that weight savings are negligible, even after 15 years of development. Secondly, whilst user-friendliness has been increased, the top end speed of the board has not. In a powered up drag race, the old board still has it. And finally, perhaps the biggest drawback of the past 15 years of evolution appears to be a lack of ‘Fun factor’. The new Screamer feels like an anaesthetised version of its younger relative.

But perhaps Nous avons missed the point. Maybe the new board isn’t designed to wow you with its own performance, but is instead designed to flatter you with yours. Maybe, at the end of the day, cracking that first carve gybe and blasting comfortably through gusts and lulls is what will give modern freeride sailors the biggest Fun Factor…



De façon surprenante, l'article conclut que les anciens shapes, bien que plus difficiles à utiliser, sont plus rapides et jibent mieux.
Hmmmm!!
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rich1
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Clarencephil,Sep 6 2007
07:12 PM
De façon surprenante, l'article conclut que les anciens shapes, bien que plus difficiles à utiliser, sont plus rapides et jibent mieux.
Hmmmm!!

J'ai lu l'article (vu que je vais m'acheter une nouvelle board dans pas longt.). Full d'ac. avec toi Clarence. La Screamer de l'époque était une slalom (m'en souviens encore). Le modèle moderne n'est pas PANTOUTE une board de slalom (z'ont jusse garder le nom), me semble qu'elle ressemble plus à une freeride pépère.

Faudrait qu'il la compare à une vrai slalom moderne (JP, Naish ou même Mistral qui en ont une maintenant, me souviens pu du modèle) ou même une super-x.

En tout cas, quand j'ai décortiqué l'article, j'étais TRÈS déçu de leur conclusion, çà prête pas à changer sa planche. Je pense qu'il NOUS ont pris pour des TOTONS dans cet article... <_<

Mais c'est vrai que les boards de SL modernes sont +douces, enfin, celles que j'ai essayées (Tabou rocket 95, AHD slalom 95). Perso, j'aime pas, çà manque de feeling (au contraire du ski, ta paire d'Omeglass déménage un peu + que ta vieille tige de 205).
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Stefrigaud
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En 2017, 40 ans de plancheEt ça ne paraît pas !!!
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Pis la floria qui voulait me faire débarrasser de mes Rap, Electric Rock et Presto....

Juste avec cet article, elles viennent de doubler de valeur :whistle:

Mais c'est exactement les conclusions de ce lundi. J'étais en Exocet Cross 117, 6.6 et Cheftony utilisait ma Presto de 122 litres en 6.7

A la fin du trois heures, il avait les genoux en compote. Les miens pas de problèmes. Quand je me sers de la Presto, brise glace au printemps mes genoux paient un lourd tribut.

Dans les trous je pouvais garder le planing plus longtemps, mais dans les grosses rafales il venait me chercher doucement.

Les jibes sur la Cross sont d'une douceur mais il faut faire attention de pas trop remonter tellement que ça tourne facilement.

Les jibes sur la Presto doivent être mieux préparés et surtout plus musclés...très facile de tuer la vitesse en entrant dans le jibe... pas assez vite. Paradoxal hein ?

Sur la Presto, je ne me suis jamais servi de la moitié avant du rail de pied de mât. Je roulais dessus en 4.5 à 6.0, puis 6.75 avec une voile plus récente. Avec la Cross j'utilise beaucoup plus le range complet du rail, de 4.3 à 6.6. Elle pourrait prendre plus de voile je suis sûr. Pas certain que j'aurais voulu mettre plus que 7.0 sur la Presto.

Mais le fait reste, que pour blaster en ligne droite, ben accoté, pas de trous de vent, avec des chaussons antidérapants et un aileron en G-10 au lieu du plastique à stylo Bic, la Presto est encore ben le fun !!!

Bon Vent !

PROPRIÉTÉS À VENDRE ici (Bords de l'eau)
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Clarencephil
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Je ressors ce sujet des boules à mites, à cause d'un article dans le dernier Windsurfing (US)


Vous pourrez le lire ci-dessous, mais pour résumer, l'auteur trouve que les anciennes planches de grand vent, longues et étroites, allaient bien mieux que les shapes actuels courts et larges. Selon lui, un shape plus étroit tape moins dans le clapot. Et quand il y a beaucoup de vent, le départ au planing se fait aussi bien qu'avec une shape large

Votre opinion ?


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BGood
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Le vieux John Crew sonne juste comme ça... un vieux boomer qui ne veut pas accepter les changements de la nouvelle génération.

Disons qu'il a peut-être raison pour ce qui est des high wind boards pour les petits gabarits à la Docjibe. Mais pour les taupins, les nouveaux shapes larges et courts sont géniaux.

J'ai changé l'an dernier ma Cult 86 litres 2004 Posted Image pour une Cult 84 2007 Posted Image et la différence est positive sur tous les points. Planing BEAUCOUP plus tôt, manœuvrabilité accrue, top end moins "white knuckles". Les sauts... hmmm... probablement pareil en l'air, mais l'appel sur la vague est meilleur à cause du + en portance.

Pis pour des palettes rapides et ± étroites, bin y en a encore chez RRD par exemple, la Cult HC et la petite FSW.
Mes tableaux ici
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